Darwin-L Message Log 13: 1–36 — September 1994
Academic Discussion on the History and Theory of the Historical Sciences
Darwin-L was an international discussion group on the history and theory of the historical sciences, active from 1993–1997. Darwin-L was established to promote the reintegration of a range of fields all of which are concerned with reconstructing the past from evidence in the present, and to encourage communication among scholars, scientists, and researchers in these fields. The group had more than 600 members from 35 countries, and produced a consistently high level of discussion over its several years of operation. Darwin-L was not restricted to evolutionary biology nor to the work of Charles Darwin, but instead addressed the entire range of historical sciences from an explicitly comparative perspective, including evolutionary biology, historical linguistics, textual transmission and stemmatics, historical geology, systematics and phylogeny, archeology, paleontology, cosmology, historical geography, historical anthropology, and related “palaetiological” fields.
This log contains public messages posted to the Darwin-L discussion group during September 1994. It has been lightly edited for format: message numbers have been added for ease of reference, message headers have been trimmed, some irregular lines have been reformatted, and error messages and personal messages accidentally posted to the group as a whole have been deleted. No genuine editorial changes have been made to the content of any of the posts. This log is provided for personal reference and research purposes only, and none of the material contained herein should be published or quoted without the permission of the original poster.
The master copy of this log is maintained in the Darwin-L Archives (rjohara.net/darwin) by Dr. Robert J. O’Hara. The Darwin-L Archives also contain additional information about the Darwin-L discussion group, the complete Today in the Historical Sciences calendar for every month of the year, a collection of recommended readings on the historical sciences, and an account of William Whewell’s concept of “palaetiology.”
----------------------------------------------- DARWIN-L MESSAGE LOG 13: 1-36 -- SEPTEMBER 1994 ----------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:1>From DARWIN@iris.uncg.edu Thu Sep 1 00:28:58 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 01:28:46 -0500 (EST) From: DARWIN@iris.uncg.edu Subject: List owner's monthly greeting To: email@example.com Organization: University of NC at Greensboro Greetings to all Darwin-L subscribers. On the first of every month I send out a short note on the status of our group, along with a reminder of basic commands. Darwin-L is an international discussion group for professionals in the historical sciences. It is not devoted to any particular discipline, such as evolutionary biology, but rather endeavors to promote interdisciplinary comparisons among all the historical sciences, from historical linguistics and geology to archeology, systematics, cosmology, and textual criticism. The group is now one year old, and we have about 600 members from nearly 30 countries. I am grateful to all of our members for their interest and their many contributions, and for helping to make Darwin-L one of the most professional and successfully interdisciplinary discussion groups around. The Darwin-L gopher contains logs of all our past discussions, as well as a collection of files and network links of interest to historical scientists. The Darwin-L gopher is located at rjohara.uncg.edu; on most mainframe systems you can simply type "gopher rjohara.uncg.edu" to get there. Darwin-L is occasionally a "high-volume" discussion group. Subscribers who feel burdened from time to time by their Darwin-L mail may wish to take advantage of the digest option described below. Because different mail systems work differently, not all subscribers can see the e-mail address of the original sender of each message in the message header (some people only see "Darwin-L" as the source). PLEASE include your name and e-mail address at the end of every message you post so that everyone can identify you and reply privately if appropriate. Remember also that in most cases when you type "reply" in response to a message from Darwin-L your reply is sent to the list as a whole, rather than to the original sender. The following are the most frequently used listserv commands that Darwin-L members may wish to know. All of these commands should be sent as regular e-mail messages to the listserv address (firstname.lastname@example.org), not to the address of the group as a whole (Darwin-L@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu). In each case leave the subject line of the message blank and include no extraneous text, as the command will be read and processed by the listserv program rather than by a person. To join the group send the message: SUBSCRIBE DARWIN-L <Your Name> For example: SUBSCRIBE DARWIN-L John Smith To cancel your subscription send the message: UNSUBSCRIBE DARWIN-L If you feel burdened by the volume of mail you receive from Darwin-L you may instruct the listserv program to deliver mail to you in digest format (one message per day consisting of the whole day's posts bundled together). To receive your mail in digest format send the message: SET DARWIN-L MAIL DIGEST To change your subscription from digest format back to one-at-a-time delivery send the message: SET DARWIN-L MAIL ACK To temporarily suspend mail delivery (when you go on vacation, for example) send the message: SET DARWIN-L MAIL POSTPONE To resume regular delivery send either the DIGEST or ACK messages above. For a comprehensive introduction to Darwin-L with notes on our scope and on network etiquette, and a summary of all available commands, send the message: INFO DARWIN-L To post a public message to the group as a whole simply send it as regular e-mail to the group's address (Darwin-L@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu). I thank you all for your continuing interest in Darwin-L and in the interdisciplinary study of the historical sciences. Bob O'Hara, Darwin-L list owner Robert J. O'Hara (email@example.com) Center for Critical Inquiry and Department of Biology 100 Foust Building, University of North Carolina at Greensboro Greensboro, North Carolina 27412 U.S.A. _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:2>From jsl@rockvax.ROCKEFELLER.EDU Sun Sep 4 10:00:35 1994 To: DARWIN-L@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu Subject: introducing myself -- Joshua Lederberg Date: Sun, 04 Sep 94 11:03:33 -0400 From: Joshua Lederberg <jsl@rockvax.ROCKEFELLER.EDU> Your sponsor invited new participants to introduce themselves; so I take advantage of that; and perhaps I might have the benefit of a few leads on specific topics I'm interested in, especially the authenticity of (auto)biographical narrative. I was quite intrigued by the cohering concept of "palaetiology", which does touch on a range of my interests -- would that I had been seized with that term before. [I had described history as that accounting that begins when the witting participants are gone and unable to contradict the inventions of those who had not participated in the events, and must rely on extant fragments of evidence. And of course I'm well aware of the inventions, intended or otherwise, of the participants.] My profession is research in molecular genetics and microbial evolution -- I won't say much more about that now. My mentor, Edward L. Tatum, died about 20 years ago and it fell to me to write a biographical memoir. At the same time, I was reacting to the first historical accounts of molecular biology (in which I had participated since 1944), and began to see how fragile were the objective records of the past in the history of science. My own part in that had been mainly biographical, and I am desultorily engaged in compiling my own autobiographical memoir. My memory is not perfect; and while I believe I have a far more complete archive of my papers, correspondence, etc. than most of my peers, this is often incomplete on some crucial details. And, alas, so many of my scientific peers are now gone (I was almost the youngest of that cohort); and very few of the survivors have kept much by way of documentation. So I am struggling with how to generate an authentic account of the scientific history in which I was myself a participant, even with all the assets just enumerated. Or am I barking up the wrong tree, and am I inappropriately trying to use the standards of my experimental profession, transposed to the writing of history / biography? For the few insiders who will recognize the jargon, a prototypic issue is the reception of the primal claims about DNA (Avery, Macleod and McCarty 1944.) In sum, the purposes and veridicability of autobiography, and more broadly of biography and history of science, is a topic about which I would welcome further precept and example. Most of the articles I list are available by e-mail. Which are exemplary autobiographies that have endured as the most useful testaments for historical understanding? ------------------ 203. Lederberg, J., 1972. Pneumococcal transformation. Letter to the Editor of Nature, in reply to H.V. Wyatt (Nature 1/14/72). Nature 239:234, 9/22/72. 267. Zuckerman, H. A. & Lederberg, J. Forty Years of Genetic Recombination in Bacteria. Postmature Scientific Discovery? Nature, 324:629-631 (1986) 268. Lederberg, J. Edward Lawrie Tatum. Biographical Memoirs, National Academy of Sciences. 59: 357-386 (1990). 269. Lederberg, J. Genetic Recombination in Bacteria: A Discovery Account. Ann. Rev. Genet. 21:23-46 (1987) 273 Excitement & Fascination of Science. Vol. III parts 1,2. compiled by Lederberg,J. 1990. Palo Alto, CA: Annual Reviews, Inc. v.1 1297 pp. + index pt. 2 1301-2338. [This is a compilation of 120 short autobio-memoirs] 273a Introduction: Reflections on scientific biography. by JL pp. xvii-xxiv. 292 JL 1993 What the double helix (1953) has meant for basic biomedical science. A personal commentary. JAMA 269(15): 1981-1985. 297 JL 1994 The transformation of genetics by DNA: An anniversary celebration of Avery, MacLeod and McCarty, 1944. Genetics 136(2): 423-426. 263 Lederberg, J. "Cycles and Fashions in Biomedical Research." pp. 202-216 in "Academic Medicine, present and future", Bowers, J.Z., and King, E.. E. (eds) Rockefeller Archive Ctr., North Tarrytown, N.Y. (1983) 298 John Wolff & JL. 1994 A history of gene transfer and therapy. pp. 3-25 in Gene Therapeutics: Methods and applications of direct gene transfer. Jon A. Wolff, ed. Boston: Birkhaueser 1994 also: Human Gene Therapy. 5:469-480 1994 Reply-to: (J. Lederberg)firstname.lastname@example.org -------- Dr. Joshua Lederberg Suite 400 (Founders Hall) The Rockefeller University 1230 York Avenue New York, NY 10021-6399 _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:3>From DARWIN@iris.uncg.edu Sun Sep 4 12:54:03 1994 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 1994 13:53:52 -0500 (EST) From: DARWIN@iris.uncg.edu Subject: New list: LATE ANTIQUITY (fwd from HUMANIST) To: email@example.com Organization: University of NC at Greensboro The following announcement of a new list just appeared on HUMANIST. I thought it might be of interest to some Darwin-L subscribers. Bob O'Hara (firstname.lastname@example.org) --begin forwarded message-------------- ************************NEW LIST ANNOUNCEMENT******************************* * * * LT-ANTIQ (LATE ANTIQUITY) * * * * LT-ANTIQ is an unmoderated list that provides a discussion forum for * * topics relating to Late Antiquity (c. AD 260-640). For the purposes * * of this discussion list, "Late Antiquity" includes the Late Roman, * * Early Byzantine, Early Medieval, and Early Islamic periods. Geograph- * * ical coverage extends from western Europe to the Middle East, and * * from the Sahara to Russia. Cross disciplinary interaction is particu- * * larly encouraged. Along with the usual scholarly interchange, users * * also are invited to post notices relating to upcoming conferences, * * new and on-going projects, and job openings. * * * * Potential Audience: Historians, Classicists, Medievalists, Byzantinists,* * Art Historians, Theologians, Archaeologists, Historians of Religion * * * * To subscribe, send a note to: LISTSERV@UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU * * with message: SUBSCRIBE LT-ANTIQ your name * * * * For more information, contact * * Ralph W. Mathisen, Dept. of History, * * Univ. of S. Carolina, Columbia SC 29280 * * email: email@example.com * **************************************************************************** --end forwarded message---------------- _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:4>From DARWIN@iris.uncg.edu Sun Sep 4 13:24:14 1994 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 1994 14:24:01 -0500 (EST) From: DARWIN@iris.uncg.edu Subject: Phylogeny of asteriods To: firstname.lastname@example.org Organization: University of NC at Greensboro William Whewell rightly included portions of astronomy among the sciences of palaetiology, concerned as they are with reconstructing the history of the cosmos: As we may look back towards the first condition of our planet, we may in like manner turn our thoughts towards the first condition of the solar system, and try whether we can discern any traces of an order of things antecedent to that which is now established; and if we find, as some great mathematicians have conceived, indications of an earlier state in which the planets were not yet gathered into their present forms, we have, in pursuit of this train of research, a palaetiological portion of Astronomy. [From _The Philosophy of the Inductive Sciences_] I recently came across a fascinating example of astronomical palaetiology in _Nature_ and reproduce here the abstract of the paper in question. It is an attempt to reconstruct the phylogeny of a family of asteroids, all of which are the fragments of a formerly-existing parent asteriod. If anyone knows of similar work on this topic (especially a review for non-specialists) I would be interested to hear of it. Have any of the specialists in this field actually drawn genealogical diagrams to illustrate the sequence of break-up? Has anyone talked about this idea? Here's the abstract: Milani, Andrea, & Paolo Farinella. 1994. The age of the Veritas asteriod family deduced by chaotic chronology. _Nature_, 370:40-42. Asteriod families are groups of objects produced in the disruptive collisions of a parent body. Although family members are widely dispersed in real space, they cluster in the parameter space defined by their so-called proper elements, and can thus be distinguished from the background asteriod population. For most asteriods, these parameters are very close to being invariants of motion and families are still apparent billions of years after their formation. But these parameters undergo chaotic diffusion, and in some cases the rate of diffusion might be large enough that a family member exits from the region of proper-element space occupied by the family after a characteristic time which is shorter than the lifetime of the Solar System. In this case, the characteristic time should provide an approximate upper bound to the age of the family. Here we use this 'chaotic chronology' method to estimate the lifetime of the unusually compact Veritas family. Calculations of the evolution of the proper elements of the family show that two members (including the largest, 490 Veritas) wander outside the borders of the family on a timescale of about 500 Myr, indicating that the family has an age of less than this. Notice very interestingly how the concept of the "borders of the family" is defined in the last sentence in terms of _characters_ (the motion parameters) rather than in terms of _ancestry_, as it is first sentence (where a body is a member of the family if it is a product of the collision, i.e. a 'descendant' of the parent body). This very same conflict/distinction can be seen in systematic nomenclature as pointed out by Kevin de Queiroz and Jacques Gauthier in work that has been mentioned here before, for example: de Queiroz, Kevin. 1992. Phylogenetic definitions and taxonomic philosophy. _Biology and Philosophy_, 7:295-313. Bob O'Hara, Darwin-L list owner Robert J. O'Hara (email@example.com) Center for Critical Inquiry and Department of Biology 100 Foust Building, University of North Carolina at Greensboro Greensboro, North Carolina 27412 U.S.A. _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:5>From firstname.lastname@example.org Sun Sep 4 20:21:59 1994 To: email@example.com From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Humphrey van Polanen) Subject: need info about Adam Sedgewick (1785-73) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 1994 11:07:57 +1000 Organization: Melbourne PC User Group, Australia Doing an essay on darwinism and need information on one of his contemporary critics: Adam Sedgewick (1785-73). If anybody knows of any sources, please point me at those. Thanks, Humphrey van Polanen <email@example.com> _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:6>From firstname.lastname@example.org Mon Sep 5 00:31:16 1994 From: email@example.com (Bob Wilson) Subject: Re: need info about Adam Sedgewick (1785-73) To: firstname.lastname@example.org Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 01:28:12 -0400 (EDT) > Doing an essay on darwinism and need information on one of his > contemporary critics: Adam Sedgewick (1785-73). > > Humphrey van Polanen <email@example.com> I found the following at the Univ. of Nebraska. Title: Adam Sedgwick: geologist and dalesman, 1785-1873: a biography in twelve themes. Author: Speakman, Collin Publisher: Heathfield, East Sussex : Published jointly by Broad Oak Press, Cambridge, Geological Society of London, and Trinity College, 1982. Descript: 145 p. : ill., ports. ; 24 cm. Note: Bibliography: p. 139-142. Includes index. Subject: Sedgwick, Adam, 1785-1873. Geologists -- Great Britain -- Biography Title: The life and letters of the Reverend Adam Sedgwick. Author: Clark, John Willis, 1833-1910. and Hughes, Thomas McKenny, d. 1917. Publisher: Cambridge, University Press, 1890. [Farnborough, Hants, Gregg International Pub., 1970]. Descript: 2v. illus. (part fold., part col.) 23 cm. Note: "List of Sedgwick's works": v. 2 p -604. Subject: Sedgwick, Adam, 1785-1873. This should help get you started. _________________________________________________________________ Bob Wilson Fayetteville, Arkansas USA firstname.lastname@example.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:7>From VISLYONS@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Mon Sep 5 11:35:32 1994 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 1994 12:35:46 -0400 (EDT) From: VISLYONS@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Subject: Re: need info about Adam Sedgewick (1785-73) To: email@example.com Organization: University at Buffalo Not only was Sedgewick critical of transmutation, but he claimed that progression in the fossil record was the result of "creative additions" the last one being man and this was evidence of the action of a Creative Power, not transmutation. Thus you need to deal with the issue of progression. Something you might want to look at is Charles Lyell's aniversary address of the President, (Geological Society, 1851) who is arguing against progression, although at this date is not in favor of transmutation either. Sherrie Lyons firstname.lastname@example.org sorry that is wrong email@example.com _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:8>From firstname.lastname@example.org Tue Sep 6 08:05:11 1994 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 09:07:24 -0400 To: Darwin-L@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu From: email@example.com (Jeremy Creighton Ahouse) Subject: yodelling! (convergence?) Darwin-list linguists, Last week, sitting down for a most wonderful lunch in a tiny "restaurant" secreted behind an Indian grocery in Berkeley I heard a most interesting music. As we gobbled pakoras there were the strains of (to my untrained ears) typically Indian music... suddenly the vocalist began yodelling (!). Are these sounds due to convergence, presence in an ancestral musical repertoire, or borrowing? Thanks, - Jeremy _________________________________________________________________ Jeremy Creighton Ahouse (firstname.lastname@example.org) Biology Dept. Brandeis University Waltham, MA 02254-9110 (617) 736-4954 (617) 736-2405 FAX __________________________________________________________________ .. animals are divided into (a) those that belong to the emperor, (b) embalmed ones, (c) those that are trained, (d) suckling pigs, (e) mermaids, (f) fabulous ones, (g) stray dogs, (h) those that are included in this classification, (i) those that tremble as if they were mad, (j) innumerable ones, (k) those drawn with a very fine camel's hair brush, (l) others, (m) those that have just broken a flower vase, (n) those that resemble flies from a distance. from the Celestial Emporium of Benevelent Knowledge (Jorge Luis Borges) _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:9>From email@example.com Tue Sep 6 09:09:12 1994 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 10:09:05 -0400 From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Patricia E. Varley) Organization: MIT Microsystems Technology Laboratories To: email@example.com Subject: Re: yodelling! (convergence?) I, too, was surprised to hear this yodelling when I went to a Vietnamese restaurant some years ago. I have since also heard yodelling from a Burmese singer as well. I was told it was not a predominant singing style in either culture Pat firstname.lastname@example.org _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:10>From ggale@VAX1.UMKC.EDU Tue Sep 6 15:16:42 1994 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 15:17:57 -0600 From: ggale@VAX1.UMKC.EDU Subject: Re: Yodelllay-eee-whoooo! To: email@example.com Betcha dollars to donuts that SouthEast Asian yodelling is related to North Central Asian (e.g., Mongolian) throat 'singing'. The mechanics would appear to be the same, vis a vis production. And the aesthetics... need more be said? [Actually, I've heard some Tuvan throat singing and it's weird, but sort of...well, captivating.] g ############################################################################## # # # George Gale # # firstname.lastname@example.org # # Philosophy & Physical Science # # Univ. of Missouri, Kansas City 64110 # # 913-383-3848 # # # # "....Kansas City has the two best restaurants in the world." # # --Calvin Trillin # # The New Yorker # # # ->!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<- _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:11>From RHRSBI@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Thu Sep 8 11:58:39 1994 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 01:06:15 -0400 (EDT) From: RHRSBI@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: need info about Adam Sedgewick (1785-73) To: email@example.com Sedgwick's review of "The Origin" is reproduced, along with some correspondence, in "Darwin and His Critics" by David L. Hull, Univ. Chicago Press, 1973, page 155. Bob Rothman Biology Department Rochester Institute of Technology RHRSBI@ritvax.isc.rit.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:12>From GGALE@VAX1.UMKC.EDU Thu Sep 8 15:06:42 1994 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 17:53:38 -0600 (CST) From: GGALE@VAX1.UMKC.EDU Subject: I'm in a jam...again: need pix of I-E language 'tree'. To: firstname.lastname@example.org Friday I'm planning on showing some pix comparing the tree of life, and the Indo-European language 'tree' to my phi. of language class--in the process making a pitch for similar, historical, methodologies. Well, I found some great illustrations of homologies and their use in building the phylo-genetic tree. But I can't seem to find a similar graphic for the I-E 'tree'. And that's weird, since I *seem* to remember seeing such a graphic in the front of a dictionary, and not so long ago. I've exhausted the sources I have on hand. Looks like I'll have to go to the library--but there's a decent public branch near home, here. Any suggestions where I might find a picture worthy of making an overhead transparancy from? And, on the slight chance that the Universe looks kindly upon those such as I, I'll ask the most useful question of all: anyone know where such a graphic might be posted on the Net? Or, even better, have YOU got one you'd not mind sharing? If so, have I got a proposition for YOU! No need to fill everyone's mailbox with replies--I'm 'at home' via email@example.com. Thanks folks! George _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:13>From MIC13@phx.cam.ac.uk Fri Sep 9 08:56:25 1994 Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 14:55:53 BST From: MIC13@phx.cam.ac.uk To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: [yodelling! (convergence?)] Ah hah! That celestial emporium of benevolent knowledge quote: where's it from? I saw it recently in a newspaper article by Steve Language-of-the-genes Jones. Always pleased to find an alternative taxonomy, I have a scribbled copy pinned to my desk. But, the source, please.... Can anyone help? Mike Coates _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:14>From email@example.com Fri Sep 9 17:22:50 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 18:25:03 -0400 To: firstname.lastname@example.org From: email@example.com (Jeremy Creighton Ahouse) Subject: Re: [yodelling! (convergence?)] >Ah hah! >That celestial emporium of benevolent knowledge quote: where's it from? I saw >it recently in a newspaper article by Steve Language-of-the-genes Jones. Always >pleased to find an alternative taxonomy, I have a scribbled copy pinned to my >desk. But, the source, please.... > Can anyone help? > Mike Coates You will find it in Borges Labyrinth I believe... _________________________________________________________________ Jeremy Creighton Ahouse (firstname.lastname@example.org) Biology Dept. Brandeis University Waltham, MA 02254-9110 (617) 736-4954 (617) 736-2405 FAX __________________________________________________________________ .. animals are divided into (a) those that belong to the emperor, (b) embalmed ones, (c) those that are trained, (d) suckling pigs, (e) mermaids, (f) fabulous ones, (g) stray dogs, (h) those that are included in this classification, (i) those that tremble as if they were mad, (j) innumerable ones, (k) those drawn with a very fine camel's hair brush, (l) others, (m) those that have just broken a flower vase, (n) those that resemble flies from a distance. from the Celestial Emporium of Benevelent Knowledge (Jorge Luis Borges) _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:15>From GGALE@VAX1.UMKC.EDU Fri Sep 9 20:52:32 1994 Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 20:52:19 -0600 (CST) From: GGALE@VAX1.UMKC.EDU Subject: Thanks for the help! To: email@example.com I want to thank all of you who offerred me help in locating a good graphic of the I-E language tree. A large majority suggested that I take a look at the endpapers of the American Heritage Dictionary, which I immediately did. The chart there was exactly what I needed. So, I copied it, made an overhead transparency out of it, and used it in class this morning. 22 people responded, BTW. A goodly number. I just LOVE the way e-communities work. Thanks again. g ############################################################################## # # # George Gale # # firstname.lastname@example.org # # Philosophy & Physical Science # # Univ. of Missouri, Kansas City 64110 # # 913-383-3848 # # # # "....Kansas City has the two best restaurants in the world." # # --Calvin Trillin # # The New Yorker # # # ->!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<- _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:16>From email@example.com Sat Sep 10 16:58:30 1994 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 16:58:28 -0500 From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Mary Niepokuj) To: email@example.com Announcement! Third Annual Workshop on Comparative Linguistics Purdue University Nov. 12-13, 1994 This year's topic is "subgrouping." Sessions will cover Methods of Subgrouping, Southeast Asian, Afro-Asiatic, Indo-European, and Germanic. A second announcement plus schedule will be posted in mid-October. Watch this space! For more information, contact: Mary Niepokuj firstname.lastname@example.org _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:17>From GOLLAV@axe.humboldt.edu Sun Sep 11 18:16:12 1994 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 16:17:45 -0700 (PDT) From: GOLLAV@axe.humboldt.edu Subject: Re: [yodelling! (convergence?)] To: email@example.com >That celestial emporium of benevolent knowledge quote: where's it from? From Jorge Luis Borges, "The Analytical Language of John Wilkins." In: _Other Inquisitions_ (1965). --Victor Golla Humboldt State University Arcata, CA 95521 firstname.lastname@example.org _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:18>From email@example.com Wed Sep 14 09:17:49 1994 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 09:17 CDT From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Julie Garrett) To: DARWIN-L@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu Subject: New member introduction Hello, I am a new subscriber to DARWIN-L. I am a biological oceanographer presently working on my PhD in Geology here at Louisiana State University. I am in paleontology specifically palynology. My interest and main field is dinoflagellates, modern and fossil cysts and motile cells. I am particularly interested in finding characteristics that could be used to find paleo-red tides. Julie K. Garrett E-mail address email@example.com _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:19>From DARWIN@iris.uncg.edu Wed Sep 14 12:04:49 1994 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 13:04:20 -0500 (EST) From: DARWIN@iris.uncg.edu Subject: September 14 -- Today in the Historical Sciences To: firstname.lastname@example.org Organization: University of NC at Greensboro SEPTEMBER 14 -- TODAY IN THE HISTORICAL SCIENCES 1769: FRIEDRICH WILHELM HEINRICH ALEXANDER VON HUMBOLDT born at Berlin, Germany. He will become one of the most wide-ranging and celebrated scientists of his day, best known for his work in geography, particularly _Kosmos_ (1845-1862). His older brother Wilhelm will become a linguist and a founder of the University of Berlin. 1791: FRANZ BOPP is born at Mainz. He will become one of the founders of comparative linguistics, and will publish beginning in 1833 _Vergleichende Grammatik des Sanskrit, Zend, Griechischen, Lateinischen, Littauischen, Gothischen und Deutschen_, the first comprehensive comparative grammar of the Indo-European languages. Today in the Historical Sciences is a feature of Darwin-L, an international network discussion group for professionals in the historical sciences. For more information about Darwin-L send the two-word message INFO DARWIN-L to email@example.com, or gopher to rjohara.uncg.edu (22.214.171.124). _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:20>From GOLLAV@axe.humboldt.edu Wed Sep 21 02:49:56 1994 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 00:53:02 -0700 (PDT) From: GOLLAV@axe.humboldt.edu Subject: Yodelling To: Darwin-L@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu A couple of weeks ago Jeremy Creighton Ahouse queried the Darwin-list linguists about the historical status of the yodelling he heard in the performance of an Indian singer. He asked: "Are these sounds due to convergence, presence in an ancestral musical repertoire, or borrowing?" I passed Jeremy's query (and some related messages) on to my friend Richard Keeling, a historically sophisticated ethnomusicologist at UCLA. Here, after some delay, is Richard's reply: > Date: 20 Sep 1994 13:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: Richard Keeling <IBVPRHK@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> > Subject: Yodeling and related techniques > > Tuesday 9/19/94 > > Dear Victor, > > Thanks for showing me the yodelling dialogue from Darwin-L. I consulted > the noted ethnomusicologist Nazir Jairazbhoy on the question of yodeling in > Indian music and was answered with one of those utterly silent pauses that > diffusionists of all disciplines recognize as a negative response. On > further questioning, Nazir said that it was definitely not heard among the > tribal peoples who represent the pre-Indo-European populations of India. > He did allow that similar techniques did exist in Rajasthan and the Punjabi > regions, and that there was probably a connection between these and the > unusual types of split-voice singing that tend to be associated with epic > song traditions throughout much of Central Asia. He also noted that it's > difficult to make a musicological assessment without having heard the > singing himself. > > In fact, true yodeling (the rapid alternation between chest and head voice > while singing meaningless syllables) is rare outside the European Alpine > region and derivative forms in American country western music of the early > twentieth century (as in Jimmy Rodgers or the Carter Family). The so-called > throat singing heard among the Tuvans and others of Central Asia and > Mongolia is a somewhat different technique and probably not historically > connected with Alpine yodeling. I have also heard Chuckchi recordings from > Siberia which employ this split-voiced style. > > The case of the Indian singer from Berkeley remains unresolved, however. > This may have been a type of tremolo or vibrato and not true yodeling in the > sense of Alpine yodeling. It's also possible that the singer was influenced > by listening to cowboy songs sung by Gene Autry or Patsy Montana, but > despite the inherent difficulties some of us remain unshaken in our > conviction that music may someday parallel language as a key to > understanding historical relationships. > > All best, Richard K. --Victor Golla Humboldt State University Arcata, California 95521 _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:21>From GGALE@VAX1.UMKC.EDU Thu Sep 22 14:42:27 1994 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 14:42:15 -0600 (CST) From: GGALE@VAX1.UMKC.EDU Subject: Greenberg and _Scientific American_ To: firstname.lastname@example.org Remember some months back when we were talking about Greenberg, his continuing fascination for the public, and, finally, we asked: "How Come Greenberg and/or his views are always getting so much positive ink, esp. in _Sci. Amer._?" Well, based upn this month's _SA_, I think I can conjecture plausibly. Phillip Morrison reviews books for _SA_. It is also often said of the publisher that he and Morrison are so tight, that Morrison essentially has a veto over what gets published in certain areas in _SA_. At least this is what I have heard from more than one reputable source. I have never heard it said, tho', that Morrison has an acceptance-power, only a veto-power. However, perhaps that MIGHT also be the case. Consider: this month Morrison reviews V E R Y positively two books by Merritt Ruhlen. He notes Ruhlen's close relationship to Greenberg. He notes the objections and criticisms raised against Greenberg's AmerInd hypothesis, and his overall hypothesis of ur-linguistic unity [= my words]. Against these objections and criticisms Morrison brings up, on his own hook, correlations of G's hypotheses "to maps of plausible geographic areas that fit both the geneticists' growing census of such gene alleles as blood types and the archaeologists' newest dating of the spread of agriculture west- ward into Europe. There is still more", says he, introducing some Chomsky. So what we have is Morrison, on his own, battling against the enemies of Greenberg, using his own choice of weapons, with, behind him, the backdrop of the positivity of Morrison's own review of Ruhlen's books. So thus goes the source of my plausible conjecture. [Morrison also devotes two quite favorable paragraphs to Steve Pinker's book, noting, however, Pinker's being "unconvinced" by Ruhlen and Greenberg, but, still, because of his humor, Pinker's book is clearly "a delightful member of that rare genre headed by the classic _Life on the Mississippi_." Well, THAT sure ain't faint praise!] All this, pp. 141-3, Scientific American, Oct. 94 Enjoy. g ############################################################################## # # # George Gale # # email@example.com # # Philosophy & Physical Science # # Univ. of Missouri, Kansas City 64110 # # 913-383-3848 # # # # "....Kansas City has the two best restaurants in the world." # # --Calvin Trillin # # The New Yorker # # # ->!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<- _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:22>From firstname.lastname@example.org Fri Sep 23 19:27:41 1994 Subject: How important is Henry Bauer? To: Address Darwin list <Darwinemail@example.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 19:25:42 -0500 (CDT) From: James Mahaffy <firstname.lastname@example.org> Folks, I am not sure this is the best place to post this, but darwin-l has quieted down a bit and to butter you folks up, I think it has a good mix of philosophers, historians of science and geology types. In any case to the question. I like to try and get my biology students reading a bit in the nature of science and try and provide an annotated bibliography to help them. I have enough difficulty at a college with a high teaching load in keeping up in paleoecology and a couple of areas related to teaching so must lean a bit on other opinions. Someone suggested that Henry Bauer who wrote Scientific Literacy and the Myth of Scientific Method was a pretty good book to get at the difference between folk science and professional science. I already asked a couple of friends with an interest in philosophy of science and they didn't know much about him. Can some of you who have read him or heard of him, tell me what you think. How important is the work? Is it something that would be a good starting place for undergrads at a good small liberal arts college. Thanks. -- James F. Mahaffy e-mail: email@example.com Biology Department phone: 712 722-6279 Dordt College FAX 712 722-1198 Sioux Center, Iowa 51250 _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:23>From JHART@museum.nysed.gov Mon Sep 26 15:05:13 1994 From: "John P. Hart Anthro Survey" <JHART@museum.nysed.gov> Organization: NYS Museum To: Darwin-L@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 15:58:37 EDT Subject: systematics and theory building In general, archaeologists continue to use esstentialistic taxonomic units in modeling cultural evolution. This practice has hindered the development of materialistic theory for the explanation of variation and change in the archaeological record. While this issue has received some recent attention in the archaeological literature, I am interested in the relationship between systematics and theory in other historical sciences. What is the relationship between systematics and how variation is identified and explaind? References to recent literature would be very much appreciated. John P. Hart Anthropological Survey New York State Museum 3122 Cultural Education Center Albany, NY 12230 518-474-5813 518-473-8496 (FAX) JHart@DOS90.NYSED.GOV _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:24>From firstname.lastname@example.org Mon Sep 26 16:39:50 1994 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 14:39:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mark E. Madsen" <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: systematics and theory building On Mon, 26 Sep 1994, John P. Hart Anthro Survey wrote: > I am interested in the relationship between systematics and theory > in other historical sciences. What is the relationship between > systematics and how variation is identified and explaind? A good example of how variation is described within taxonomic categories is found in Weiner's book _The Beak of the Finch_, which describes in some detail Peter and Rosemary Grant's extraordinary studies of Darwin's finches in the Galapagos Islands. They measure a huge amount of variability in finch beak, body, and diet, and do it over and over again with the same populations (they've got complete population data for over 20 years -- not a sample!). I found it an excellent look at how variation is measurable in nature, and a good example of how historical science can actually be done. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark E. Madsen Sentimental, you say? Anti-social? Dept. of Anthropology, DH-05 Oughtn't prefer trees to men? I say University of Washington that depends on the trees and on Seattle WA 98195 the men. (206) 543-5240 FAX 543-3285 -- George Orwell Internet: email@example.com firstname.lastname@example.org _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:25>From TREMONT%UCSFVM.BITNET@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU Tue Sep 27 06:03:05 1994 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 04:00:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Elihu M. Gerson" <TREMONT%UCSFVM.BITNET@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU> Subject: File: ISHPSSB CALL To: DARWIN-L@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu Announcement and Call for Papers The biennial meeting of the International Society for the History, Philosophy and Social Studies of Biology (ISHPSSB) will be held at the University of Leuven, Leuven, Belgium on 19 - 23 July 1995. Subjects of interest include all areas of biological research and may address any period of history or region of the world. Papers in previous years have considered research methods, biography, biological imagery, instrumentation, research institutions, epistemology, gender, and bioethics, as well as specialties such as ecology, genetics, cognitive and neurosciences, paleontology and evolution. We encourage participants to coordinate sessions around a theme. Sessions will be 90 minutes or 2 hours long, allowing for 3 or 4 papers. Individual papers, posters, roundtable discussions and workshops are also welcome. Abstracts (in English) should be 100-150 words long. Abstracts for sessions, workshops and roundtables are due 1 January 1995. They should include title, organizer, chairperson, and titles of individual papers, with authors' names and affiliations. Session organizers should send complete abstracts of individual papers by 1 February 1995. Abstracts for poster contributors, and individual papers are also due 1 February 1995. We prefer submissions in machine readable form, a plain text ASCII file sent by electronic mail to either TREMONT@UCSFVM.BITNET or CAPORL@RPI.EDU. Submissions typed in 14-point font or 10-pitch typewritten form may be faxed to (212) 741-2440. Submissions may also be mailed to either address below. Ongoing information, including Program Committee member addresses, is available (courtesy of George Gale) by gopher at KASEY.UMKC.EDU, IN THE "SCIENCE STUDIES" DIRECTORY. Local arrangements. Guido van Steendam, International Forum for Biophilosophy, Craenendonck 15, B-3000 Leuven, Belgium. Fax: 32 16 29.07.48 E-mail: email@example.com Society membership. Peggy Stewart, ISHPSSB Secretariat, Center for the Study of Science in Society, VPI&SU, Blacksburg, VA 24061- 0247. Program Co-Chairs: Linda Caporael, Department of Science and Technology Studies, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY 12180-3590, U.S.A. E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org Fax: (212) 627-3626. Elihu M. Gerson, Tremont Research Institute, 458 29th Street, San Francisco, CA 94131-2311. E- mail: email@example.com. Program Committee: Peter J. Bowler, UK; Werner Callebaut, Belgium; Francisco Diaz-de-Leon, Spain and USA; Jean Gayon, France; Christiane Groeben, Italy; Robert Hendrick, USA; Muriel Lederman, USA; Hans-Jorg Rheinberger, Germany; Peter B. Sloep, Netherlands; C.U.M. Smith, UK; Cor N. van der Weele, Netherlands _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:26>From KBO-GILLIS@nrm.se Wed Sep 28 07:57:20 1994 From: "Gillis Een" <KBO-GILLIS@nrm.se> Organization: Swedish Museum of Natural History To: DARWIN-L@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 13:57:19 +0100 (MET) Subject: Yodelling -o-o-O-O-O-o-o-o- Just back from a short visit to Dalecarlia, a province of Sweden at the latitude 61 deg., I scanned a number of messages in DARWIN-L and saw some about yodelling. I did not read them properly, but hopefully the following can be of interest. Dalecarlia is a country of lakes, rivers, conifer forests and low mountains. The farms are normally situated near a big lake or a river. In the old days every farm also had a summer farm, situated on a mountain slope. In early summer all the cows, goats and sheep were moved to the summer farm, together with the tools required for the processing of milk into butter, cheese and brown whey-cheese. Normally only one woman was left there to do all the work over summer. In the early autumn she and the animals and all the dairy products were fetched and brought down to the base farm in the lowlands. The woman in charge of the summer farm was rather isolated. In order to communicate with her sisters on other summer farms, she used a form of yodelling. There was no words involved, but the tone sequences imitated certain chosen words in the very melodious dialect of the area. Thus they could talk to each other in a primitive way. Thus yodelling in this case was a form of talking over large distances and not singing in the ordinary sense of the word. I have heard of similar communication methods in other parts of the world, e.g. the Canary Islands. I think there are reasons to believe that the various methods used, have evolved from local circumstances, and quite independent of each other. Gillis Een Stockholm Sweden firstname.lastname@example.org _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:27>From email@example.com Wed Sep 28 14:52:49 1994 From: Mary Winsor <firstname.lastname@example.org> Message-Id: <9409281648.AA04001@blues.epas.utoronto.ca> Subject: Chr. G. Ehrenberg To: email@example.com Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 12:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Does anyone know who is doing research on Christian Gottfried Ehrenberg, famous promoter of the complexity of "infusoria" (microscopic plants and animals) in the 1830s? If I posted this already, please forgive me; I have been having major problems with my email system, and have not see the Darwin-L postings for several weeks. Reply to Polly Winsor at: firstname.lastname@example.org _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:28>From email@example.com Wed Sep 28 15:16:11 1994 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 13:10:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eugenie C. Scott" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Yodelling To: email@example.com Gillis Een's very interesting discussion of the communicative function of yodeling brings to mind the "talking drums" of West Africa. Wouldn't such a technique work only for tonal languages? or languages, minimally, where intonation was very important for meaning? Speaking of intonation, has everyone read "Laddle Rat Rotten Hut?" (Wants pawn term, dare worsted laddle gull hoe lift wetter murder on fodder honor itch offer lodge dock florist....") ECS ***************************************************************** SUPPORT SCIENCE EDUCATION! Eugenie C. Scott NCSE 1328 6th Street Berkeley, CA 94710-1404 510-526-1674 FAX: 510-526-1675 1-800-290-6006 firstname.lastname@example.org ***************************************************************** _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:29>From email@example.com Wed Sep 28 20:48:00 1994 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 21:45:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Patricia Princehouse <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Yodelling To: email@example.com On Wed, 28 Sep 1994, Eugenie C. Scott wrote: > Speaking of intonation, has everyone read "Laddle Rat Rotten Hut?" > (Wants pawn term, dare worsted laddle gull hoe lift wetter murder on > fodder honor itch offer lodge dock florist....") No, can you post the ref? Thanks, Patricia Princehouse firstname.lastname@example.org _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:30>From email@example.com Thu Sep 29 03:41:49 1994 From: "J.L. Cormack" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: talking drums To: email@example.com Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:41:34 +0100 (BST) Re: yodelling (or extending to 'talking drums') I seem to recall in northern Ghana the presence of 'talking drums'. These were narrow but long drums which sat on the ground with the drummer standing beside the instrument to drum. I think that drums were known as either women's or men's drums. Does anyone have a any more details on this? ********** J.L. Cormack email: firstname.lastname@example.org _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:31>From Michael_Kenny@sfu.ca Thu Sep 29 09:45:36 1994 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 07:45:28 -0700 To: email@example.com From: Michael_Kenny@sfu.ca (Michael Kenny) Subject: Re: talking drums I recall an article in Scientific American about W. African talking drums: the idea being that a given drum (actually a slit gong: i.e. a hollowed out log), can send tonal signals depending which lip of the slit is beaten: thicker lip=deeper tone. This is a particularly effective method of communication in languages with tonal qualities. Perhaps the 'male' and 'female' drums to which you refer have kindred properties. Michael G. Kenny Dept. of Sociology & Anthropology Simon Fraser University Burnaby, B.C. V5A 1S6; Canada Michael_Kenny@sfu.ca phone: (604) 291-4270 fax: (604) 291-5799 _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:32>From firstname.lastname@example.org Thu Sep 29 12:30:44 1994 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 10:22:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eugenie C. Scott" <email@example.com> Subject: Little Red Riding Hood To: firstname.lastname@example.org To all "Ladle Rat" requestors of info: "Ladle Rat Rotten Hut" was written by H. L. Chace, a French teacher seeking to teach his students the importance of intonation in understanding language. I read it as published in the Exploratorium Quarterly, Summer, 1990. this may be somewhat obscure for people outside of California, so I will try to type it up and upload it (it isn't very long, but I'm going out of town for a few days and won't get to it until next week.) Preview of coming attractions: the moral to the story: Mural: Yonder nor sorghum stenches shut ladle gulls stopper torque wet strainers. (for non-English speakers: "Under no circumstances should little girls stop and talk with strangers:) ECS ***************************************************************** SUPPORT SCIENCE EDUCATION! Eugenie C. Scott NCSE 1328 6th Street Berkeley, CA 94710-1404 510-526-1674 FAX: 510-526-1675 1-800-290-6006 email@example.com ***************************************************************** _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:33>From rho@linda.CS.UNLV.EDU Thu Sep 29 14:35:14 1994 To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Little Red Riding Hood Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 12:30:44 -0700 From: "Roy H. Ogawa" <rho@linda.CS.UNLV.EDU> I picked this up on the net somewhere, sometime. RHO ----------------------------------------------------------------- Once upon a time - and these four words which begin the piece of prose below are all the help we are going to give you in translating it - there lived a wise old professor in a college of the University of Miami. Rationing had just begun because of the Second World War and the professor, being a literary man, worried about what would happen if ever language had to be rationed. So he decided to write something as if our vocabulary had been cut in half. "If you take these English words," he said, "and put them in columns like spelling books and just read them, they have no meaning at all. However, if you read them with the proper intonation the meaning appears for certain people. For other people, however, the meaning never does appear." --ooOOoo-- Ladle Rat Rotten Hut by H.L. Chace Wants pawn term, dare worsted ladle gull hoe lift wetter murder inner ladle cordage, honor itch off lodge, dock florist. Disk ladle gull orphan worry putty ladle rat cluck wetter ladle rat hut, and fur disk raisin, pimple colder Ladle Rat Rotten Hut. Wan moaning, Ladle Rat Rotten Hut's murder colder inset. "Ladle Rat Rotten Hut, heresy ladle basking winsome burden barter and shirker cockles. Tick disk ladle basking tutor cordage offer groin-murder hoe lifts honor udder site offer florist. Shaker lake! Dun stopper laundry wrote! Dun stopper peck floors! Dun daily-doily inner florist, an yonder nor sorghum-stenches, dun stoper torque wet strainers!" "Hoe-cake, murder," resplendent Ladle Rat Rotten, and tickle ladle basking an stutter oft. Honor wrote tutor cordage offer groin-murder, Ladle Rat Rotten Hut mitten anomalous woof. "Wail, wail, wail!" set disk wicket woof, "Evanescent Ladle Rat Rotten Hut! Wares are putty ladle gull goring wizard ladle basking?" "Armor goring tumor groin-murder's," reprisal ladle gull. "grammar's seeking bet. Armor ticking arson burden barter an shirker cockles." "O hoe! Heifer gnats woke," setter wicket woof, butter taught tomb shelf,"Oil tickle shirt court tutor cordage offer groin-murder. Oil ketchup wetter letter, an den -- O bore!" Soda wicket woof tucker shirt court, an whinny retched a cordage offer groin-murder, picked inner windrow, an sore debtor pore oil worming worse lion inner bet. Inner flesh, disk abdominal woof lipped honor bet, paunched honor pore oil worming, an garbled erupt. Den disk ratchet ammonol pot honor groin-murder's nut cup and gnat-gun, any curdled ope inner bet. Inner ladle wile, Ladle Rat Rotten Hut a raft attar cordage, an ranker dough ball. "Comb ink, sweat hard," setter wicket woof, disgracing is verse. Ladle Rat Rotten Hut entity bet rum, and stud buyer groin-murder's bet. "O Grammar!" crater ladle historically, "Water bag icer gut! A nervous sausage bag ice!" "Battered lucky chew whiff, sweat hard," setter bloat-Thursday woof, wetter wicket small honors phase. "O Grammar, water bag noise! A nervous sore suture anomalous prognosis!" "Battered small your whiff, doling," whiskered dole woof, ants mouse worse waddling. "O Grammar, water bag mouser gut! A nervous sore suture bag mouse!" Daze worry on-forger-nut ladle gull's lest warts. Oil offer sodden, caking offer carvers an sprinkling otter bet, disk hoard-hoarded woof lipped own pore Ladle Rat Rotten Hut and garbled erupt. MURAL: Yonder nor sorghum stenches shut ladle gulls stopper torque wet strainers. _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:34>From email@example.com.Hawaii.Edu Thu Sep 29 16:02:49 1994 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 10:57:51 -1000 From: Joel Bradshaw <firstname.lastname@example.org.Hawaii.Edu> Subject: Re: talking drums To: email@example.com On Thu, 29 Sep 1994, Michael Kenny wrote: > I recall an article in Scientific American about W. African talking drums: > the idea being that a given drum (actually a slit gong: i.e. a hollowed out > log), can send tonal signals depending which lip of the slit is beaten: > thicker lip=deeper tone. This is a particularly effective method of > communication in languages with tonal qualities. In 1939, Otto Dempwolff, one of the founders of Austronesian historical linguistics, published _Grammatik der Jabemsprache_, describing a New Guinea Austronesian language that had both tone and verb serialization, two features widespread in sub-Saharan African languages (which Dempwolff was familiar with from earlier work on African languages), but rather unknown in Austronesian languages until then. A 1941 review of this work, by Heimo Kremsmayer in the _Wiener Zeitschrift fur die Kunde des Morgenlandes_, remarked on the tone (but ignored verb serialization), speculating that more tone languages were likely to turn up in the Pacific, where drum-signalling was already known to be widespread, because "Trommelsprache ist schwer denkbar ohne Tonsprache" [drum-signalling is hard to imagine without tone languages]. Several DARWIN-L members seem to share this impression. Subsequent research has turned up very few Austronesian tone languages in the Pacific (there is a pocket in New Caledonia), although there are some in Southeast Asia in proximity to non-Austronesian tone languages. I'm not really up on what literature exists on the subject, but I suspect that drum-signalling (and yodelling) are not simply poor (but telephonic) substitutes for human speech, at least where they have become elaborated or well-established. The only such instance I have looked at very much is a paper on the "whistle speech" of the mountain-dwelling Arapesh in Papua New Guinea, who often need to communicate across steep mountain valleys. The few transcribed samples of whistle speech in that paper could not be derived in any straightforward way (that I could see) from the sounds in the verbal equivalent as normally spoken. (I believe pitch was indicated in the transcriptions.) Alternative communication media seem quickly to take on a life and discourse-style of their own. Postscript: Ever since I first read Heimo Kremsmayer's brief review, I have wondered what might have befallen him in wartime Austria. Did he die in the war? Did he die in the holocaust? Did he escape and survive? Does anybody know of Internet resources for tracing what might have happened to Kremsmayer? Please reply to me directly if you do. Joel Bradshaw <firstname.lastname@example.org> _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:35>From email@example.com Thu Sep 29 22:58:21 1994 From: Mary P Winsor <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: no subject (file transmission) To: email@example.com (bulletin board) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 21:26:53 -0400 (EDT) Several months ago I inquired about the tales we live by, that is, the stories, myths if you like, which give inspiration or act as models in our various disciplines. This is connected to my interest in the way the history of a field could play a role in its daily practice, that is, how scientists' understanding of what came before may guide their choices of action. Now I am reading Nicholaas Rupke's rich new biography* of Richard Owen, the British anatomist now remembered for the hatred with which the Darwinians regarded him. Rupke discusses in some detail (citing other historians who have also discussed this case) the wonderful classic tale of Cuvier's principle of reconstruction. This is surely one of the founding myths of comparative anatomy. The idea was to make anatomy a predictive science; just as the astronomer could tell when a comet would reappear, the proof that we have real scientific understanding of the laws of biology will be when we foretell the form of a creature we have not yet seen. Cuvier's "law of correlation" was supposed to provide this level of scientific control. A tooth designed to tear flesh rather than to grind leaves implies a neck and shoulder strong enough for a predator, which implies also victim-grasping claws on the feet. Thus the student prankster, trying to give the master a fright by dressing up as the devil, gets only the reaction "horns on the head, cloven hooves, can't be carnivorous, ho hum!" [this bit isn't in Rupke] Owen impressed everyone enormously when a portion of a thigh bone from New Zealand was shown him, and he said, "giant flightless bird" and afterward the whole skeleton -plus memories - of the moa confirmed his prediction. Thomas Henry Huxley deliberately pricked that balloon, arguing that mere induction, not logical deduction such as the mathematical laws of astronomy provide, is all that anatomy has to offer. Owen recognized the thigh-bone as a bird's because he'd seen other bird thigh-bones. I assume this much of the tale is well-known to the biologists on this list (but is it?). My two questions are, is this tale familiar to others? In your own field, is there a similar story about predictions which serves to show that your discipline is truly scientific rather than merely antiquarian? * (Nicholaas A. Rupke, Richard Owen: Victorian Naturalist, Yale Univ. Press, 1994. Polly Winsor firstname.lastname@example.org _______________________________________________________________________________ <13:36>From email@example.com Fri Sep 30 10:01:47 1994 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Arlen Carey <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: talking drums To: email@example.com This may be a bit off the mark, but . . . There is a variety of contemporary _Afro-Pop_ music (originating in Nigeria, I believe) called _Ju-Ju_ music that makes heavy use of _talking-drums_. Ju-Ju is built around the talking drums which are complemented with wispy electric guitar (billed as a mix of old and new) and some vocals. Two top representatives of this genre are King Sunny Ade and Chief Commander Ebenezer Obey. I've seen both perform, and the taking drums are long and fairly narrow. As I recall they are played with one arm wrapped around the drum and a curved striking instrument is used. Great music. *************************************************************************** * Arlen D. Carey * * * Department of Sociology/Anthropology * e-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org * * University of Central Florida * voice: (407) 823-2240 * * Orlando, FL 32816 * fax: (407) 823-5156 * *************************************************************************** _______________________________________________________________________________ Darwin-L Message Log 13: 1-36 -- September 1994 End
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